Tags
agitators, communist revolution, lazy bums, left-wing corruption, nitwits, occupy wall street, socialist organizers, whiners
On Monday I posted about all occupy wall street movement, and what I perceive the protesters to be. One person (beaufortninja) commented on that post, with the following statement:
The tone of the writing says all I need to know about you. Your lack of empathy for less fortunate Americans is astounding.
I responded to beaufortninja by pointing out that I was not writing about those less fortunate. I was commenting about the young twentysomethings who do nothing but whine and complain about the fact they are going to have to put in some hard work to make a success of themselves. Instead of rising to that challenge, they have chosen to make a nuisance of themselves by demanding that others take care of all their needs.
beaufortninja responded by commenting that I knew nothing about the movement, and that it was really about ending high dollar political contributions on the part of the corporations. First, that’s a smoke and mirrors tactic to change the subject of the discussion. Instead of refuting my comments about the lazyass young whiners who think they are owed something for doing virtually nothing their entire lives, beaufortninja chose to change the subject. Now, according to him, it’s not about helping the less fortunate (in his opinion), it’s about cleaning up political corruption. Logical fallacies aside, he did make one valid comment about what I had written, and that is the fact I don’t know all that much about the occupy wall street movement. In that, he is correct. I know bits and pieces based on snippets I had heard or read, or was told by friends, family, and coworkers. So, in order to become more knowledgeable about what the nature of the beast is, I decided to go straight to the horse’s mouth in an attempt to ascertain the truth.
My first stop was at what appears to be the official website of the movement, http://occupywallst.org/ . Here are my findings.
At immediate glance, it appears to be an organized website where lots of info can be found. That perception changes very quickly, as the site is nothing more than a lot of hype and cheering and fluff, but no real meat. There are many statements like this one:
Occupy Wall Street is a people-powered movement that began on September 17, 2011 in Liberty Square in Manhattan’s Financial District, and has spread to over 100 cities in the United States and actions in over 1,500 cities globally. #OWS is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.
Thanks for the info, guys. But you haven’t answered any questions. Here are the things I would like to know:
1. What exactly do you mean by the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations?
2. Exactly how did Wall Street create an economic collapse?
3. Exactly how are the richest 1% writing the rules of an unfair global economy? In what was is the global economy unfair? And, assuming it is unfair and needs to be changed, exactly what do you propose to do to fix the problem?
Let’s see if there are any answers to be found at the occupy wall street website. The main page offers no real answers. It does give a timeline of events, and states several times that they are standing up for Americans fighting corruption and corporate greed, but beyond that, it’s very vague about exactly what they want to change and how they want to fix what they perceive as a problem. This is disquieting by itself, but I will get to that later. The first agenda is to determine exactly what the movement is about.
One of the tabs at the top of the website is labelled ABOUT. Great! That’s exactly what I need, to learn ABOUT the movement. Here’s the few ‘facts’ I was able to glean from the ABOUT page:
1. OccupyWallSt.org is the unofficial de facto online resource for the ongoing protests happening on Wall Street. We are an affinity group committed to doing technical support work for resistance movements. We are not affiliated with Adbusters, anonymous or any other organization.
Okay, I knew this was an online resource. Duh. Hmm…so, the people who created the site are doing technical support work for resistance movements. What resistance movements? Where? More info please.
2. Occupy Wall Street is a horizontally organized resistance movement employing the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to restore democracy in America.
Okay…..I think we all know it’s a resistance movement. Thanks for sharing that you’re using Arab Spring tactics. I wasn’t aware democracy was gone. Where did it go? When? Last I knew, we’re still electing our political leaders in a democratic process. Did this change? And when? Are we not having a democratic election next year? I’m, uh, confused.
3. The participation of every person, and every organization, that has an interest in returning the US back into the hands of its individual citizens is required.
How? By what method?
4. Our nation, our species and our world are in crisis. The US has an important role to play in the solution, but we can no longer afford to let corporate greed and corrupt politics set the policies of our nation./We, the people of the United States of America, considering the crisis at hand, now reassert our sovereign control of our land./Solidarity Forever!
First of all, I take umbrage with whatever nitwit who wrote this claptrap announcing himself as my spokesman. I didn’t elect him, I didn’t appoint him, I didn’t choose him in any way. He did not contact me and share his concerns and then ask if he could represent me on the national stage. How dare he and his cohorts announce themselves as “We The People Of America”?? We the people would like for the nitwit to shut his damn mouth and sit down and avail himself of the democratic process like the rest of us by voting and writing his congressman if he has issue with something. This does not sound like someone trying to ‘restore democracy’. The words above sound more like something written by Chairman Mao rather than a believer in American democracy.
Beyond those statements, the ABOUT page has no clear answers as to what the group is actually about. It’s nothing more than a bunch of vague statements, designed to rouse the rabble and get them angry, and then point them in the direction the leaders of the movement choose. I’d bet good money that if they set down their beliefs in a clear fashion, and listed the actions they would like to accomplish, they would lose support fast. No American in his right mind wants a communist revolution in our fair land.
The only clear fact I could find on the ABOUT page is a statement at the very bottom:
this site was brought to you by various radicals
Shocking. I never would have guessed that.
Okay, there’s really not much of any substance to be found at the ‘unofficial site’ of the occupy wall street movement. Let’s see what I can find elsewhere.
After some searching, I did find a site called Occupywiki. At that site, there’s a page titled Why Occupy? “At last,” I thought. Here I’ll find some answers. Instead of answers, I literally found a bunch of questions, posed to whoever might stumble upon and read the page. Here’s the link:
http://occupywiki.org/index.php/General/WhyOccupy?
I figured I’d take the time to post and answer their questions, as they claim to be acting on my behalf, and since the questions are posed to me and every other American. Their questions and statements are in red, and my answers in bold black.
- Do you work for a corporation?
I do work for a business, yes, and in its own way, yes, it is a corporation.
- What would you do if your job was outsourced?
Uh, I would find a new job. And maybe I would write and/or petition Congress to relax its outrageous taxes on business so that corporations could afford to hire more Americans.
- Do you know where your food comes from?
Yep, I sure do. I get most of my groceries from Price Chopper. Occasionally I go to HyVee, and once in a great while, I might shop at HenHouse. Oh, and there’s always Target and WalMart. Mostly though, I prefer Price Chopper.
- If you own your own home can you be confident that you will still own your own home a year from now?
Yep. I do own my own home, and I’m positive I will own it a year from now.
- If you don’t own your own home can you be confident that the person who owns it will still own it a year from now?
See my answer to the preceding question.
- Are you worried about who is funding our elections?
Nope.
- Do you feel like your voice is being heard in our political system?
Yes, I do. I have written my representative and senators on many issues, and I have gotten responses by them, and I have personally seen that they have listened to me and other constituents. Further, from all available evidence, I have seen that my vote still counts.
- Do you live paycheck-to-paycheck?
I have been guilty of that on occasion. Largely, though, it was on account of my poor spending habits. As I got older and wiser, I learned to not be frivolous with my money but rather to make sure I had funds set aside for emergencies and whatnot.
- Do you care about the Constitution?
Absolutely, which is why I don’t trust agitators like you who seem to be trying to subvert it.
- If you got sick could you afford to go to the doctor?
Absolutely. I have put the time and effort to have a job that allows me to pay for all my needs. If you can’t afford to pay for a doctor’s visit, then get off your ass and put in some blood sweat and tears and earn the money that will enable you to do so. Don’t whine about what you’re not able to afford. All that tells me and every other hardworking American is that you’re a lazy bum who thinks everyone else owes him something. Got news for ya, nitwit: We owe you NOTHING!!
- If you do go to the doctor will you get the same level of care as someone who owns the place where you work?
Absolutely. My doctor treats all her patients the same. I don’t get treated any differently than the next guy who comes in, regardless of their status.
- Do you think it is fair that 1% of the people have 80% of American resources?
Really? Assuming that’s true, for only having access to the other twenty percent, I have a good life. I have a family, we have most everything we need. The only things I don’t have that others who make more money than I do are strictly entertainment items. I don’t have the latest in cutting edge technology as far as home entertainment systems and the like. I don’t have the most expensive car on the market. I don’t live in a mansion. I don’t wear the finest items of clothing. I don’t eat at the fanciest restaurants. But I don’t begrudge the people that are able to afford all of those things. They’ve worked hard to earn all that stuff, and they’re welcome to it. If you have a desire to gain all that, then get out there and start busting ass and quit your damned whining.
- Are you tired of corruption running rampant?
Yep, and one day, we’ll break the back of the democrats and their machine politics in places like Chicago and Detroit. One day, the people will realize en masse that politicians and radicals like you who make all your pie in the sky promises are not to be trusted, and you and your ilk will get the bum’s rush.
- Are you ready to take a stand and exercise your RIGHT to free speech to effect some real change?
Excuse me?? I exercise my right to free speech on a daily basis. I’m exercising it right now, in fact. Giving support and money to a nitwit like you, however, is not the best way to exercise my right to free speech.
- Does it bother you that decisions are based upon financial gain, not the good of the people?
Evidence?? Examples?? Proof??
- Are you sick of greed being the ruling paradigm?
Ugh. Again, examples??
- Are you sick of feeling helpless?
I don’t feel helpless. Well, in one sense I do. I’m largely helpless, by myself anyway, to do anything about you and all your nitwit comrades, who, instead of going out and getting a job and truly contributing, can’t do anything truly useful with your lives. You call yourselves radicals. How about doing something truly radical for your generation and going out and putting in some real time and effort to make something of yourself instead of whining about what you think everyone owes you?
Newsflash, buddy: We OWE you NOTHING.
Smoke and mirrors, huh? If you want to have a serious discussion then feel free to email me. Making passive aggressive remarks on your blog without the courtesy of informing me is pathetic. I just happened to stumble upon this article in the Current Events topics and if you honestly don’t know what people are so angry about then I really would love to live in the world you do. And, as you said, you don’t know anything about the movement so you’re not qualified to even write about it and cruising around the internet, doing some half-hearted research on an event you really don’t care about, won’t make you informed. Logical fallacies aside, move on to a subject you know. You’re a lot less smart than you think you are. Your opinions are laughable.
Half-hearted research?
I went straight to the source, and instead of finding any clear statement of what the movement was about, I find nothing but a bunch of hype and self-congratulatory remarks. I found nothing more than evidence that someone, or perhaps a group of someones, is spinning a bunch of clever slogans and inflammatory half-truths at best in order to stoke large crowds of people to anger.
If you know of a more reliable source that will provide more concrete information and real meat instead of the fluff I found on the so-called official websites of the movement, then by all means post them here. I would welcome some real sources. But please don’t throw a bunch of slogans and tired socialist talking points at me.
So far I’ve seen nothing more than a new example that too many people out there are sheep waiting for someone to give them something to bleat about, and unfortunately, there are all too many pipers ready to give the crowd a tune to dance to.
Mao and Lenin and Pol Pot and others of their ilk stirred up the crowds with much the same rhetoric being spouted by the leaders of this movement. People followed those wolves, believing their lives would improve under the beneficial hands of their dear leaders, and guess what? There were just as many paupers under Stalin’s leadership as there was before the Bolshevik revolution, and their lives changed not a whit for the better. In most cases, their lives worsened. Same for the peasants subject to Mao’s tender mercies.
The people writing the slogans for this current movement are great at making claims, but there is a dearth of real-world examples in their rhetoric. And you, my friend, do nothing but try to belittle my intelligence when I challenge any of the ideas of this movement. Nice try, but no cigar for ya.
I could do the same in return. I could stay over on my side and state that you simply do not understand the true nature of reality, but I shall refrain. I think you do understand, and that makes you all the worse.
Of course it was half-hearted research. Even if you saw the truth staring you in the face, you wouldn’t see it because you already have your laughable false conceptions about what OWS is all about. I laugh out loud when I read your responses. And because I’ve dealt with a dozen people just like you I know that I could post a hundred links to good, credible information but you would still believe in lies or the grandiosity of your own opinion. So, instead of wasting more of my time with you, I’ll just let you spew your ignorance. Go on pretending to be more intelligent than hundreds of thousands of people around the world. It seems to be working out for you. Enjoy the corporately endorsed police state because I won’t be here to deal with it. All of America’s problems are the fault of people like you. You’ve killed this country. Goodbye.
Ah, you’re funny.
You sit there and spout off all your tired socialist talking points and slogans, yet you haven’t been able to answer one question.
The truth of the matter is, the occupy wall street movement is an unfocused rabble of loudmouthed whiners who have no clear ideas about anything.
Try to find out exactly what it is they are seeking and you’ll get one of many vague answers.
Ask any questions about one of those vague answers, or challenge any of the vague assumptions, and instead of a clear, rational answer, the protester simply switiches to one of the other vague answers.
And round and round it goes. And then they, like you, try to pass off their evasiveness as possession of knowledge that the rest of the world simply can’t understand.
“We can’t explain it to you because we’re so much smarter than you and everyone else, but we are acting in your best interest and if you just stand back and let us take care of things for you, we’ll lead you into a better world and yada yada yada yada yada yada yada yada……..ad nauseam.”
Heard the same claptrap from every whiny college student who was finally about to graduate and suddenly realized that his days of wild hedonism were about to end and mommy and daddy were no longer going to pick up the tab for him, and all of a sudden, the world’s an evil place where he is being kept down by all the sinister forces in society who are out to cheat him and rob him of things that are his supposed birthright.
The problem isn’t Wall Street, or even the politicians, who I agree tend to be jaded and crooked, but rather the fact that your parents spoiled you and never taught you real responsibility. It’s always someone else’s fault, not your own.
Call me in a few years when you’ve graduated from diapers and bottles, and maybe we’ll have a real discussion.
Nice try attempting to look good to your readers. You come off as a jerk, and an uneducated one at that. Using fancy language doesn’t hide it.
Hi, dianejd, thanks for stopping by and posting your comment. Let’s take a look at what you have to say:
“Nice try attempting to look good to your readers.”
Hmmm…well, you’ve misunderstood my post and its purpose. Allow me to enlighten you. I’m not trying to look good to anyone. The theme of my post was pointing out there is a dismaying lack of coherence or logic to the occupy wall street movement. When one does research to learn what the movement is about, all one finds is an endless array of slogans and empty rhetoric. When I took the time to question another blogger, who apparently supports (in spirit at least) the movement, his response was to spout a couple tired socialist talking points and slogans and then try to belittle my intelligence. One of his stock remarks was that I can’t possibly understand the situation, which is what socialist nitwits have been spouting off since that philosophy began. No straight answers or clear definition of goals, just a hash of cool-sounding revolutionary slogans and catchphrases.
“You come off as a jerk, and an uneducated one at that.”
Well, here we go again. Instead of taking one single point or remark I made, and then presenting your response to that point or remark, you resort to name-calling in order to hide your own lack of ability to intelligently debate the issues.
“Using fancy language doesn’t hide it.”
Okay, now you have me laughing. You have just betrayed your level (or lack thereof) of intelligence. The post to which you’re commenting is not in fancy language at all. Actually, I was not even writing at college level in this post. I’d say it’s newspaper quality at best, but then most newspapers write at a junior high school level in order to be understood by their readers. Similarly, I am writing at that level in these posts so that people like you will have at least a chance of understanding the content.
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. That’ what you sound like. If you would like to see the difference between yourself and one of these “sheep waiting for someone to give them something to bleat about” then here’s an interview for you. I’m only giving you one since you should have done your own homework before writing about this.
Chris Hedges lays everything out very clearly and the behavior of the ultra-conservative anchor is very similar to the way you conduct yourself. If you still don’t get it and you still feel like you have to belittle people who actually want justice then there’s no hope for you. Needless to say, I won’t be coming back to this site.
See CF, there’s your problem, you’re expecting coherence from hippies.
I know, veeshir, I know, but hope springs eternal that I will be able to reach one of these babes. I have to believe that everyone is capable of learning.
Oh, I wasn’t talking about your fan club, I was talking about the post itself.
As FrnakJ said today, As part of that, they may have a discussion on what demands are… so once they figure what a demand is, I’m sure they’ll have lots of them.
http://www.imao.us/index.php/2011/10/nuke-the-news-obama-making-all-the-right-choices-demands-and-only-1-99/
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